the church also says it adheres to all child labor laws. when you left the church, you described it as an act of treason? >> yes, it was a treason nous act. an enemy who declares himself an enemy that is a bad thing. off friend who stand you in the back, that's worse and that's what they claimed i did and that's actually what i did. >> reporter: in retrospect, haggis says he was never a true believer. for his her res circumstance the church has labeled him the hypocrite of hollywood and says he has not been an active member for years. is science cology a cult? >> of course it is. of course it is. a system of belief, you got these folks inside this fortress who won't look out, won't look at any criticism and can't bear to -- any investigation and think that everyone is against them. how would you describe that? it's a cult. of course it is. >> well, larry ryan is a pulitzer-prize wing author, his new book is "going clear, scientology, hollywood and the prison of belief." good morning to you, larry. >> good morning. >> pick up with paul haggi